Unit Guide Guide to Types

Discussion in 'Guides' started by Eleiryn, Jun 16, 2014.

  1. Eleiryn

    Eleiryn QUACK QUACK BOOM Administrator

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    For anyone who doesn't know what the various types are:
    Lord doesn't change base max-level stats.
    Breaker adds attack and takes away defense
    Guardian adds defense and removes attack.
    Anima adds hp and removes rec
    Oracle adds rec and removes hp

    First, three disclaimers:
    • If you have to ask, the best type is probably Anima.
    • Having a good unit with bad typing is better than not having that unit at all.
    • I will mention imps where relevant, but most discussion will not revolve around their use. Yes you can imp a Guardian to have better attack or a Breaker to have better def, but they're too rare to easily max out everything, and imp stats don't count for base attack anyways.

    Also note that I will be assuming a BBspam team (aka a team that can... spam... brave bursts every turn). In other words, that means lots of HC gen for strong healing even without a healer.

    ----------------------

    Anima is the most popular generic typing, and for a reason; in a future metagame where raid class 2-3 bosses can do 5-10k damage THROUGH tesla/darvan BB, there is no such thing as "too much" HP. For better or for worse, most future units have anywhere from overkill to slight overkill rec, so Anima's rec loss isn't much of a loss at all.
    • Anima is best on: basically everything, honestly, as bad as that sounds. BBspam teams generate enough HC on multipart enemies that you'll full-heal most rounds for free anyways, and Zelnite or Fii are enough to heal on even most single target enemies if you can sustain the spam.
    • Anima is not quite as amazing on units with low rec, like 1400 and below in 6* form, but that DOES make them prime imp targets. Anima Tesla aint as sexy in trials by default due to the difficulty sustaining, but slap 300-400 rec worth of imps on him and a Malice Jewel/Legwand/whatever, and it's a little less horrible dealing with.

    Breaker is very hit or miss, much like Guardian - people either love it or hate it and there's often no room in between the two. It is worth noting that, unlike sphere, imp, and BB attack bonuses, Breaker modifies the BASE attack stat of a unit, which means that the ~200 attack from breaker is WAY more valuable than 500 attack from spheres.
    • Breaker is best on damage-focused units who already have good tankiness. Duel-SGX is a fantastic example of having plenty of bulk and not enough attack for his solid SBB damage multiplier and role in heavy damage-focused teams. Douglas is arguably also an example, though your mileage may vary. The defense loss isn't THAT critical, generally, if you run Tesla/Darvashield.
    • Healers, Tesla, and squishy attackers are not such big fans of the typing. What is Elimo going to get from 200 more attack? What is Tesla, the guy who pretty much literally never attacks, going to get out of losing a couple hundred defense? Michele is already squishy enough in any non-Anima typing, she doesn't need even LESS defense. That doesn't mean that you should never use a Breaker Tesla - any Tesla is better than no Tesla - just that if you have a better typing, go for it.

    Guardian is the red-headed stepchild of the types for a lot of people for a lot of reasons, some of them legitimate, others not so much. More defense is always nice, but HP is by and large the safer mitigation stat. Much like with Breaker, it is worth noting that Guardian reduces BASE attack, which will significantly decrease damage.
    • Most useful on people who only care about surviving and don't give a good god damn about their attack. Tesla, Elimo, etc are all fine with that. Darvashield doesn't really care either; yes he attacks with his BB/SBB on top of giving the %DR buff, but do you REALLY care if he does 200 less damage so long as he gets his SBB off? Squishy attackers like Michele and Ruza are also ok with this typing, though they prefer Anima.
    • If you have a reasonably bulky unit with offensive use, this typing may not be the best. That doesn't mean that it's BAD, a Guardian Ruza will still do his job just fine, but battles may take a bit longer in return for a little extra safety. You should never discard a unit because they're Guardian, it's just not always optimal.

    Lord is the jack of all trades, master of none typing. No one gets ruined by it, no one really benefits from it. It's fine on healers, attackers, everyone; there's generally a better option (cough Anima), but you aren't going to pull Zelnite and think "aw, it's a Lord, I better fuse my only Zelnite away because he's worthless now."

    Oracle is a highly contentious typing, and part of the problem is that while the stat it boosts is somewhat underrated and pretty important, the hit you take to boost it is far more serious. If you've ever played raid class 2-3 raids, Frontier Gate 30, later FH Terminus battles, etc. from JP, you know how much difference even 200-300 hp can make, and the total HP swing from Oracle to Anima can be 1000-2000 total HP... and it only takes a few raids to realize how often units can drop below that mark in one round even with Darvanshel SBB up.
    • Oracle is rarely the best option for anyone, though a few units, like Tesla and his horribly Rec score, definitely gain a net benefit from it. It is perfectly usable on most units, though not optimal - I survived basically everything on JP with an Oracle goddamn Duel-SGX and while he was always the first to die when the going got tough, he was still a LOT better than no Duel-SGX at all.
    • On the flip side, even Tesla probably gets more benefit from Anima + a bunch of Rec imps, and Oracle is, frankly, enough of a HP hit as to make some units completely or nearly unusable. Alice is already bad enough as Anima, Oracle Alice is just literally worthless in RC3. Michele sure as hell doesn't need even LESS tankiness; even a Lord Michele is going to die pretty quick when the going gets tough and enemies start pumping out 8k+ damage to entire team a turn through tesla/darv BBs.

    And for the love of god I'm going to throttle anyone who says JUST SLAP A HP SPHERE ON THEM or JUST USE IMPS; endgame everyone uses Legwands or better, there's no reason to use an HP sphere when it's only 5% more HP than a Malice Jewel and comes without the 30% to all other stats of a MJ, and imp caps are the same regardless of typing so an Oracle with max HP imps is still going to be a LOT squishier than an Anima with max HP imps.
     
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2014
  2. Vindicated

    Vindicated Sage

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    This needs to be stickied and linked in about 25% of threads on this sub forum. I found myself today explaining the concept but failed to put it into anywhere near this level of detail.

    Kudos.

    Edit: You may want to create a section explaining that certain units, due to their utility, only benefit from a couple (or in most cases 1) unit type. IE glass cannons and healers.
     
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  3. Trilly the Drednought

    Trilly the Drednought Celestial

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    Very good guide... wish it was around when I was a noob...cheers :)

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  4. Riukensei

    Riukensei

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    I think Anima beats Guardian, but the rest is pretty correct. The def increase for guardians doesn't match the HP increase for Anima even in fighting. 200more defense is worth about maybe 400-500 HP. And anima increases roughly 800. Give or take.

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  5. Eleiryn

    Eleiryn QUACK QUACK BOOM Administrator

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    For short battles, I absolutely agree. For longer battles, the def wins out - unless you have to worry about being oneshot, in which case Anima may pull ahead again. Really they're both perfectly viable as 'survival' type, they just specialize in different things.
     
  6. Trilly the Drednought

    Trilly the Drednought Celestial

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    With most types spheres are always an option as well

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  7. MojoRisin

    MojoRisin Almighty

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    Nice.
    Great generalization.

    I would also really love to see an individual unit by unit analysis where everyone can post feedback and opinions on typings, best uses, etc. (Not in one post obviously, but in one stickied Place). Like you said there is a lot of subjectivity, but still would be interesting as often times SBB usage, Leadership Skills, and usage objective can change individual typing preferences even when using the general logic you stated in above. Currently - when trying to read individual assessments on units you have to go through maybe a dozen different threads/sites, etc.

    But this is super-cool!
     
  8. Glum

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    A healer or support with Breaker is flat worthless. Most healer/supports benefit mostly from Guardian because their BB means they don't even get to attack for one turn. Since they don't really ever get to attack, the best typing is the one that trades ATK (worthless) for a useful stat.
     
  9. Poisontail

    Poisontail

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    I just don't believe this well maybe lancia breaker with a medulla hits pretty damn good!

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  10. Glum

    Glum Aether

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    Lancia may have the ability to hit hard, but keep in mind that any turn she is used to heal (which should preferrably be at least once every 3 turns to keep up her buff), she is not doing any damage at all. Basically, all ATK is only worth 2/3rd the ATK on a normal unit because the other units will be using it to deal damage every turn, instead of taking "breaks" from damage-dealing in order to heal the party.
     
  11. Eleiryn

    Eleiryn QUACK QUACK BOOM Administrator

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    Lancia is a pretty bad healer in general (SORRY LANCIA FANS Michelle does attack better and Elimo is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay better as a healer in every possible scenario, even Eze legend vortex). And honestly, as we get into Douglas Frontier, people are gonna realize that healers-for-the-sake-of-healers is a dying art; Douglas Frontier generates so many HC you auto-heal to full basically, so you only bring along healers for their utility; Elimo is actually still relatively popular in JP due to the SBB dmg reduction effects (she's like a watered down Tesla). And if you do decide to go with a monoteam (actually surprisingly viable, as much as you hear about DOUGLASSSSSS), you NEED to bring along a healer that fits the job (read: provides immense survivability), for which case you have... well, Elimo, again, that insane damage reduction is friggin' huge.

    Also, unless you run a BB spam team, your healer is just gonna be guarding every turn against the kind of enemies you would actually need to bring her along for, so attack is, as mentioned, literally worthless on them.
     
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  12. Riukensei

    Riukensei

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    wrong. just wrong.
    Lancia is a bad ass healer. Great heal them gradual heal and atk up for 3 turns. That's great for surviving any situation. Elimo is great and all but there are a lot better DMG reduction units that put her to shame. also Healers will be very needed for Raids. Which BTW Duo Lancia and Elimo are going to keep your team alive and boosted strong enough to deal a great amount of DMG.

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  13. Riukensei

    Riukensei

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    Not to bash you, I hope you don't take it that way but once her SBB is out Lancia will be a top healer. Even tho by then Douglas Frontier will be out and no one will use healers till raid lol

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  14. Eleiryn

    Eleiryn QUACK QUACK BOOM Administrator

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    Excuse me? Raids just use Douglas Frontier autoheal and Tesla leader, no need for healers outside of the occasional item heal/revive if things go terrible wrong.

    HoT scales HORRENDOUSLY with rec so it's bad now and will only get worse in future, and it's COMPLETELY garbage in BBspam teams anyways due to you only getting 1/3 of the benefit at the best of times. As I mentioned, BBspam teams with multiple Douglases (Douglasi?) have zero issues with healing, so a burst healer is fairly worthless.

    Attack up is far better done by Michelle, who is one of THE biggest staples of most JP teams (including RB teams) these days.

    The only unit that really matches Elimo at damage reduction is Tesla 6*, who only wins due to leader skill - there's a reason Tesla is FAR more popular than Elimo on JP for raids/legend vortexes, though she's an acceptable filler.

    I already mentioned that healers (especially Elimoo) are useful for monoteams, but for the FotM Douglas Frontier BBspam teams, healers are pretty niche.

    EDIT just saw your latest post: no offense taken. I just like arguing this stuff, hehe. My point was simply that healers have fallen out of favor a lot on jp due to Douglas Frontier being, frankly, broken as shit and generating 12 million health crystals to the point that you either survive to the next turn (and autoheal) or you don't (and game over). For mono teams especially healers are still viable (though Elimo is still by far the best option due to damage reduc/def boost), but you do have a bit more versatility thanks to Seals. Monofire especially has (and I may be spelling this bad) Lamuna, who has a huge defense boost attached to her offensive BB/SBB, opening a slot for someone like Lancia since you won't need Elimo as much and Michelle is somewhat less stronk on a monofire.
     
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2014
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  15. Riukensei

    Riukensei

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    Healers are garbage period. Once you really know how to build a team and have the gems to do so they are worthless. But I love Lancia over Elimo Massive heal with HoT will make sure if they didn't fully heal they will after turn is over. The def up is nice. One key thing she has better. But I just can't agree with Lancia being garbage. As for Michelle she I love her and yes she does way better then Lancia. But so does Zelban to Elimo. Can't compare 2 separate types like that lol. I think in healer class Lancia and Elimo are tied in the fact that it depends on which way you wanna go more atk and HoT or Def up. I think that's more opinionated and situational.

    Douglases or Douglasi? I've been wondering that myself.

    I'm waiting to see a Felneus + 4x Lira in arena.

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  16. Eleiryn

    Eleiryn QUACK QUACK BOOM Administrator

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    Alright, I'll concede that. I coulda been a little more considerate about my wording. I love Lancia myself and use her on JP (FRYING PAN-FU!), it's just that tier lists and comparisons ALWAYS come up when you're trying to pick one person to fulfill a specific role and there's a general view of 'best=only usable all others = garbage.'
     
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  17. Riukensei

    Riukensei

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    I see what you mean. its true that in JP Def is all the rage. I haven't used a healer since Felneus was released that day lol

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  18. Bdizzle

    Bdizzle Virtuoso

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    Great posts very helpful. I have two questions. What type do u think is best for Vishra and would you agree that Lorand's 6 * got a pretty good def boost? I'm not saying his def is great but I have a lord and I think he'll be able to maintain with a star shield.
     
  19. Eleiryn

    Eleiryn QUACK QUACK BOOM Administrator

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    Just for reference, Vishra and Lorand 6* stats
    Lorand: 5555/2155/1405/1525
    Vishra: 5900/1999/1823/1500

    Lorand is definitely a lot less squishy than he was, his def still isn't great but at least it's still in the 'loosely usable' category. Guardian/Anima would still be his best typings by far but Lord is usable. I like Lorand in general honestly, he is pretty good at murdering/debuffing bosses.

    Vishra... I'd actually honestly say Lord is his best, Guardian very close or equal. His stats are all pretty balanced, but I feel like he doesn't have enough rec (by 6* standards) to take the hit from Anima, though your mileage may vary. I'd probably say Lord=>Guardian>Anima>Breaker>Oracle.
     
  20. Trilly the Drednought

    Trilly the Drednought Celestial

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    Bolt Magus Rashil is the exception to the healer garbage statement...he has great stats and you can actually attack and spark with him if done right... not to mention a crit buff

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