Zedus/Andaria Review

Discussion in 'Unit Reviews' started by Eleiryn, Sep 23, 2015.

  1. Eleiryn

    Eleiryn QUACK QUACK BOOM Administrator

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    Disclaimer: their spheres are not out yet. Depending on what they are, they may make these two even better or just be kinda irrelevant; in general both units are amazing without spheres/ESes so it's not really a big deal, and in Andaria's case you /may/ even want to make a point of NOT activating her ES, more on that later. When the spheres come out, I will reassess these units and edit the review, but honestly it's pretty irrelevant to how good these guys are - even without ES at all they're still pretty dominant (Zedus will just want a crit buff from Hadaron/Griff).

    [​IMG]
    "Has just about had it with these snakes on this plane" Andaria
    • Hits/DC: 14/2
    • Cost: 40
    • Stats (L): 6750 HP / 2570 ATK / 2365 DEF / 2185 REC
    • Imps: 1100 HP / 440 ATK / 440 DEF / 440 REC
    • LS: +20% Crit Chance, 15-20% BB Cashback, +20% BB Cost Reduction
    • ES: +40% HP/ATK [Equip Bow of Andaria], +2-3 BC when Hit for 3 turns on BB/SBB [Equip Bow of Andaria]
    • BB: Cost: 27BC/25DC - 25 Hit 280% AoE (ATK+100), Cure Status/Debuffs, Invalidate Status Ailments for 3 turns, 50% Paralysis, 70% Poison
    • SBB: Cost: 26BC/28DC - 28 Hit 500% AoE (ATK+100), Invalidate Status Ailments for 3 turns, +7 BC/turn for 3 turns, +30% BB Fill Rate for 3 turns
    • UBB: Cost: 26BC/35DC - 35 Hit 1200% AoE (ATK+100), Invalidate Status Ailments for 3 turns, Cure Status/Debuffs, +50 BC/turn for 3 turns
    • Arena Type: 2

    Overview: Yo dawg we herd u liek snakes so we put mecha-snakes alongside your snake hair and your snake waifu hair so you can snake while you snake.

    So yeah, Andaria actually came pretty close to what I was guessing she would get at 7* - kept the usual immunity/BC regen, buffed BC regen to best-in-slot status, added an Ares buff, and (via ES) added BC on hit. LS is still pretty much shit, just a less useful Bestie LS, but honestly you didn't use Andaria for her LS anyways so it's irrelevant. Note that her SBB still DOES NOT have cleanse built into it, nor does her ES offer it, so she has to switch down to BB to cleanse - fortunately, at 24 hits (vs SBB 28) and offering immunity/cure/BC on hit (via ES), you aren't actually losing THAT much, her SBB buffs last 3 turns so at worst someone is gonna spend a turn without the Ares/BC/turn. Now yes, that does suck, but it's something you can deal with; Edea mitigator/emergency cleanser comes to mind. But honestly, it's not that common to have buff wipe AND serious ailments inflicted simultaneously, so it's not a gamebreaker.

    Andaria's been getting a lot of flak for certain buff overlaps, which I'll get into more later, but I also want to address the one people seem most pissy about: the 2-3 BC on hit buff via ES. First of all, let's be motherfucking realer than real here - the difference is generally pretty nonexistent. Her massive BC gen, between SBB hitcount, best in slot BC regen, and Ares buff combined means that even with lower BC on hit, Andaria is still gonna be in the upper echelons of BC gen. Your overall BC gen will be fairly similar, though it will be centered a bit more on your turn than the enemy's, which CAN be an issue vs some extremely drain-heavy enemies. Fortunately - her BC on hit is attached to her unique sphere. If you don't want it? Just use an allstat sphere+immunity subsphere, and you have a drastically better Exvehl. That said, honestly, I don't think it's a big problem... it's fairly difficult to fit most BC on hit options into heavily offensive teams, whereas Andaria's absolutely ridiculous slot efficiency makes her easy to slot in. Compared to for example Kikuri or Medina or yes even Bestie, where you don't want to use them if you don't have to, Andaria makes an extremely compelling case to use her in pretty much any team. If you want to use her sphere/ES but want a good BC on hit unit - just suck it the fuck up and use Medina or Kikuri or Rivera, any of them will work fine with no clashes besides BC on hit, and just use their SBBs after you use hers to overwrite her BC on hit. So yeah. For me personally, it's +2-3 free BC on hit vs the 0 I usually run with, so it's a direct upgrade and not a weakness at all.

    Animation deserves a special note - her SBB is an absolute dream now, much better than the obscene delay and clumping of her 6*'d SBB. Short pause, then a massive cluster of hits spread out enough to help team spark - Andaria has IMO one of the better sparking animations to be found, though that's actually surprisingly common (depending on preferences) among immunity options - Melchio and Exvehl both have decent animations too, though I personally prefer Melchio's over Exvehl's - YMMV. Point is, Andaria is no longer a crippling detriment to your team's sparking rate.

    Usage: well gee fucking whizz, I wonder where you might want immunity, Ares, BC regen, and BC on hit in one unit? OH RIGHT, FUCKING EVERYWHERE. Seriously - with slot efficiency like this, it's almost harder figuring out where you WOULDN'T use Andaria. FH mid and terminus 1TKO is about it, honestly, everywhere else she's good to amazing.

    Clashes
    • Ares buffers (Bestie and Griff are the big two) do clash with Andaria. If you want a secondary BC on hit option to overwrite her buff, Medina, Kikuri, Rivera, eventually Nadore, eventually Vishra, etc. all absolutely shit on Bestie in this scenario - generally better direct BC gen and/or much better utility. Griff doesn't care that much about Ares overlap with Andaria, they both have pretty different jobs and outside of the Ares clash, they work pretty well together; it's not a gamebreaker by any means considering how many other forms of BC gen Andaria has to help keep Griff teams filled.
    • Immunity is kind of a given too, but honestly, the best immunity/cleanse units have such varying roles that they can coexist well enough. Exvehl gets rekt pretty hard by Andaria, but Melchio exists perfectly fine as a Light element buffer+immunity+cleanse dude, and Aurelia is brought just as much for her heal and rec->def conversion as her immunity - possibly more in fact - to the point that if you did use Andaria+Aurelia in a team, it'd work fine, just SBB both of them and try to overwrite Aurelia's crappy BC regen with Andaria's superior buff.

    Teams: Gonna try a new-ish section, going into what sort of compositions units work well in. Andaria is a great start, because she works WONDERFULLY with some newer/global exclusive setups that people might not be aware of, but clashes horribly with some JP-style comps.
    • She works EXTREMELY well with teams that have low natural BC gen - examples would be something like Tridon+Deimos leads, Zedus+Ark, Griff+Zedus, that kind of thing. Andaria herself is an endless BC battery to fill up your team and help spark to generate even more BC, so she fits naturally into all of the above despite the relatively minor Ares clash
    • Also works well in BC on spark reliant teams (ex. Zenia, Roa), because HOLY SHIT YOU MEAN MORE SPARKING MEANS MORE BC? Yeah. Griff+Zenia, Zedus+Zenia, something funky like Zenia+Bestie or even a JP style team like Griff+Roa, all of them want her around if possible despite the occasional bit of clashing here and there
    • She also works well in teams with good BC gen. What's that? These three team types are pretty much every team? EXACTLY.
    • Her synergy with Zedus especially is worth noting - a team like Zedus/Tridon is very balanced on offense/defense, but has fairly low BC gen and unfortunate sparking - Andaria fixes a lot of that.
    • To the surprise of absolutely no one, she also has great synergy with another SBS unit - Deimos. Guess who has a decent BC on hit buff on his LS? Guess what happens when you add 2-3 to 3-5 BC on hit? Yup, fuck you other BC on hit buffers you aint needed here. The immunity LS/SBB thing doesn't really help, but otherwise she acts as a great BC battery and individual damage, so it's not THAT bad.
    A composition like Zedus/Deimos, Andaria Krantz Feeva Quaid can work pretty well for example. What's that? Deimos LS gives immunity? Sure, but Andaria also gives enough BC gen to be worth slotting there. Don't like that much overlap? Cool, toss Deimos, swap in Tridon lead, switch Feeva for your favorite unit (Kafka, Balgran, Will if you want more offense, etc), works fine. Zedus/Tridon, Andaria Krantz Will Quaid covers just about everything important except for an attack buff. Want attack buffs? We can work with that. Depending on what elements you need, Quaid can easily be dropped for Ark or Michele - with Zedus/Tridon's 20% crit LS, it really doesn't matter if Michele's 40% crit buff clashes with Zedus's 60% or not, you're crit capped regardless.

    Really though, given her mastery of BC gen and immunity, Andaria fits well into pretty much any team - unlike Zedus/Griff/Zenia lead clashes and concerns, she just works fine everywhere.

    Future Prospects: As with all immunity options, Andaria will eventually run headfirst into the wall of broken bullshit that is Lucius - immunity LS, 40% Ares buff, on literally every fucking team. Same as most, that's not a great deal for her. She DOES do better than some (cough Exvehl) on account of having some nice utility outside of that, but when you combo someone like Alyut with Lucius, you can basically replicate her but better. That's not to say that Andaria is hit any harder by this than other immunity buffers (it's more of a role issue than an Andaria thing), and Lucius is a ways away, but it is something to be aware of.

    She also clashes a bit with 7* Shera, between their BC regen buffs, but honestly it's the same fucking buff with the same fucking values and they have no other clashes and actually work VERY well together in heavily offensive teams, so it's not actually a problem at all.

    Rating: 10/10. Getting pretty close to the generic SBS unit rating, they vary at most by 1-2 in either direction. Really though, outside of some fairly minor clashing and not cleansing herself (which are generally minor annoyances rather than severe issues), Andaria offers so fucking much that it's difficult to figure when I'd use her competition over her, rather than the other way around. Quit fucking crying about the BC on hit, just don't use her sphere if it bothers you that much, or use Medina or w/e after her to overwrite it. Making it so much easier to introduce BC on hit into a team without wasting a slot is a strength so good it completely overrides this minor downside.


    [​IMG]
    "FUCK THAT ENTIRE CITY IN PARTICULAR" Zedus
    • Hits/DC: 8/3
    • Cost: 40
    • Stats (L): 7000 HP / 2600 ATK / 2400 DEF / 2100 REC
    • Imps: 1100 HP / 440 ATK / 440 DEF / 440 REC
    • LS: +150% Crit Dmg, +80% Spark Dmg, +20% Crit Chance
    • ES: +20% All Stats [Equip Spear of Zedus], +60% Crit Chance Buff for 3 turns on BB/SBB [Equip Spear of Zedus]
    • BB: Cost: 24BC/22DC - 11 Hit 350% Thunder/Light AoE (ATK+100), +70% Spark DMG for 3 turns, +50% Elemental Weakness Dmg for 3 turns
    • SBB: Cost: 30BC/24DC - 12 Hit 600% Thunder/Light AoE (ATK+100), +80% Spark DMG for 3 turns, -50% ATK/DEF {50%} for 1 turn, +50% Crit Damage for 3 turns
    • UBB: Cost: 30BC/28DC - 14 Hit 1200% Thunder/Light AoE (ATK+100), +120% Spark DMG for 3 turns, +150% Elemental Weakness Dmg for 3 turns, +300% Crit Damage for 3 turns
    • Arena Type: 2

    Overview: You want to do damage? Zedus is your guy.

    @Taikero has a topic about spark buffers that goes harder into the math than I particularly care to do here, but the tl;dr version is that Zedus is THE king of damage by a fairly ridiculous margin for the most part; LS+buffs offers close to 3x team damage of a Zenia lead for example. Assuming you have the element buffs from elsewhere, he also completely shits on Griff damage wise, though Griff does have an advantage in BC gen due to his BC on crit stuff... oh, and 30% HP, which is kinda nice when you're trying not to die. So he's not a Griff killer overall per se, both have their uses (and there's no law against using them together - yes the crit buff clashes but who fucking cares), but in raw damage he does win over... everyone.

    It's not really hard to figure out why when his LS+SBB offers +200% crit damage, +160% spark damage, +80% crit (still capped at +60, but helps with crit resist), and if you add his BB every few turns that's an extra +50% weakness damage (as usual, only works on base elements) for team. It'd probably be shorter to list the offensive buffs he DOESN'T have, which are... attack and BB mod. And element, I suppose, but that's why Quaid/Michele/Melchio/Will/Roa/Griff/Libera/Kafka/Krantz/your mom exists. Even as a sub, Zedus is unmatched in terms of raw damage boost to team, and his abnormally high SBB modifier just amps it up even further. At this point I kinda expect his sphere to be completely fucking stupid too, but we'll burn that bridge when we come to it.

    It is worth noting that his SBB is kinda expensive at 54BC - nothing new for the SBS units (or Griff batch stuff is in low 50s as well generally), but you will want a team with good overall BC gen to help fuel his murder rampage. Good thing he has above average DCs to help out!

    Finally, his UBB deserves special mention, because shit just got motherfucking realer than real. It's pretty much Nemethgear UBB with a massive chunk of bonus weakness damage tacked onto it because... why not? On the flip side, it's also a LOT less hits than Nemethgear's, so less free sparking for team, and the base element thing is relevant - Nemeth can be more useful vs dark enemies in a rainbow team for example, while Zedus pulls ahead with monos that can benefit from his weakness buff (ex Zedus/Kira+monolight vs Xie'Jing) and spark decently without Nemethgear UBB (so for example, Will-sama helping out). I wouldn't go so far as to say his UBB is straight up BETTER than Nemethgear, that massive spark blanket is pretty important, but situationally it can absolutely be as good or even better depending on how much value you're getting from their strengths.

    Animation: functional. That's honestly about all I can say about it. It's mostly split into two clumps; nowhere near as delayed/split up as someone like Deimos, but not nearly as smooth as Andaria or Will or w/e other high standard you want to use. Kinda normal for SBS units again, but above average for them - certainly not in the Tridon/Deimos range of "oh god why."

    Usage: Making the bad guys go boom. NO ONE beats Zedus in terms of raw damage as a lead, even as a sub you'd have to pull some bullshit to make him lose, and unlike Andaria there is 0 reason to ever not use his ES (once his sphere hits, anyways). Whether it be Zedus+Kira or Zedus+Dion FH mid or FG farming squads, Zedus+Tridon or Zedus+Roa or even Zedus+Griff raid nuke squads, or trying to cheese some trials, Zedus is a dominant contender.

    Team Composition: Much like Tridon and Zenia before him, Zedus offers a new approach to the meta of leadership; offering unquestioned supremacy in raw offense, he falls short in both utility (BC gen) and survivability (HP/mitigation). That means two things; one, your friend leader needs to have some sort of survivability, and two, your team is probably gonna need some really good BC gen, doubly so if you want to run something like Zedus+Tridon.

    Complicating matters is the Zenia issue - they directly clash in terms of spark buffs, and they don't work together well as leads cuz, well, no HP. So that kills much chance of using them together, and he shits on Raaga even harder. So, what do we do? Well, we have a few options.
    • Roa, slightly ironically, finally has a chance to situationally shine over Zenia; while his mediocre spark buff does clash with Zedus (try to use Zedus's afterwards), otherwise they work wonderfully together, with Roa offering some of the elements any nuke team wants, along with a unique spark amplification debuff on enemies and (most importantly) a combo HP/BC on spark LS. Where TriZenia didn't care, Zedus REALLY likes that 30% bonus HP.
    • Griff, again possibly slightly ironically, quite likes his biggest competitor - caught in a rad bromance if u kno wat i meen. Seriously tho, yes, they have identical crit buffs, and even a duplicate crit damage buff, w/e it doesn't really matter that much when Griff also offers a couple elements, 30% HP, and a LS crit damage boost that stacks perfectly fine with Zedus's. Hell, the BC on crit even helps out a bit, cuz with Zedus's 80% crit chance boost you can even bypass light crit resist to crit reliably - making BC on crit more useful in general, and in tun helping fund Zedus's SBB. Team has pretty low BC gen overall between them though, so you'll definitely want a strong BC gen sub in there - Andaria shines here, as does Medina's raw BC gen, while Bestie sinks into meh-ness on account of Ares overlap.
    • Tridon/Deimos both offer the kind of survivability that Zedus REALLY wants, though, each with a shitload of utility on top of that - Tridon offers competitive a BC droprate buff to help fund their expensive SBBs and a LOT of survivability between LS/shield/140% def buff, while Deimos offers massive utility in his immunity and BC on hit LS (hello free BC gen) on top of the general other stuff he does, AND he offers plenty of tankiness as well between Taunt and a 100% def buff. Moreso than any of the other combos above though, you really need GREAT BC gen from subs to make this work very well, neither Zedus nor Deimos/Tridon are master sparkers or cheap+high hitcount SBBs.

    Future Prospects: for now, Zedus actually seems fairly safe. He doesn't mix very well with Lucius lead (hello two non-HP leads), which kinda sucks, but Lucius sub is a 10/10 combo with him (HELLO LOTS OF HITS AND HUGE BC DROPRATE AND ARES AND free HP!), and oh wait, Lucius actually DOES have a HP buff on BB, and while sure 15% HP isn't exactly the same thing as 60%, for RC4/first half of 5, that's still generally enough, and MY GOD the amount of damage those two jerks put out between them is gonna be hilarious even with a bit of spark buff overlap.

    Griff and Zedus coexist reasonably well as well - working well together, and each having different niches (Zedus for raw offense, Griff for lesser offense but better survivability).

    The real question is RC6 - on JP you pretty much need dual HP lead to really do a lot there, buuut global has Tridon who is actually BETTER by himself than 2x 30% hp leads, so Zedus+Tridon may actually work. Or maybe not - the lack of BC gen against resistance kinda hurts. Honestly though, even as a sub Zedus will work fine, so he'll be fine regardless.

    Rating: 10/10. Okay yes I know I'm getting tired of writing 10s for these guys too, but I can't really NOT give them 10s when they're competitive against most JP meta stuff and offer new flavors to the meta and other possible leads than the boring-as-shit Raaga Frontier that grorious Alim eventually 'improved' all the way to a permanent Griff+Roa frontier. Strong future prospects and a dominant present, with fantastic usefulness as either lead or sub, cement Zedus's place as one of the better units in global today.

    ------------------

    Since touchandswipe isn't updated yet, unit data is thanks to Deathmax's datamine, located here.
     
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  2. Yilun

    Yilun Thanatos

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    Nice review as always! Am lucky today to be the first one to reply. I have both units and loving them so far :)
     
  3. TheRandomDerp

    TheRandomDerp Archgod

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    Andaria seems pretty good utility-wise. When does the vortex for their evos come out?
     
  4. Plantify

    Plantify Dragoon

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    7.8/10 Review too much snakes
     
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  5. Margrave

    Margrave Eris

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    They're already out. And from the looks of it, they're part of weekly Thursday dungeons now.
     
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  6. SacredShadows

    SacredShadows Twilight

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    [​IMG]
    Ive been waiting Eleiryn...
    (y) Gr8 Review m80.
     
  7. kellojolly

    kellojolly

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    Once Lucius is out, since Lucius and Zedus clash as leaders but not as leader+sub, which combination do you think will be better?
    Lucius leader + Zedus sub
    Zedus leader + Lucius sub
    Also, when lucius is out do you think Zedus will still be god tier (only a what if question but would like to know your thoughts). I'm just curious as to what would happen o Zedus once Lucius is out...if people will use Lucius lead most of the time and discard Zedus ir somehow use them together a ton like people are doing now with tridon/zenia/griff...Thanks for the review as always.
     
  8. OXStrident

    OXStrident Ruling Star

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    It is about time somebody other than me gave credit to Andaria despite the small bc on hit. Bestie gives 4-7, which averages to over double Andaria's. Does she also have status negation, status immunity, and a large bc per turn buff? Yeah no lol. Andaria may have a low buff for bc on hit, but in a lot of situations (mainly raid), it really doesn't matter. I'm pretty sure I can easily sustain without any bc on hit at all. The only situations in raid where this is a problem are on bc drain bosses, but even then it's fine. You should still have at least bb ready, and bosses don't spam bb drain thaaat much. Then on the other side, Andaria is going to help with space sooo much. For instance, my current raid squad uses Melchio and Bestie. I can replace both with just Andaria, only losing out on the atk to def conversion and light element conversion. In exchange I get a large 7 bc per turn and an amazingly valuable free unit spot for whatever role I need filled. Good review as always @Eleiryn. (y)

    Not going to bother overviewing Zedus. Rip anything with an hp stat. :D
     
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  9. Monado

    Monado Apollo

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    Must evolve my ZEDUS! HOLY CRAP I WANT HIM AS A SUB FOR MY PARTY! (Hadaron lead. ain't giving up the attack buff and more atk and def on damage.) Might have to rethink my party though. (Only 3 seven stars fit,).
     
  10. Yilun

    Yilun Thanatos

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    Fwiw, I noticed in-game that Zedus already gets his 60% crit buff on his ES naturally without his sphere. Can anyone confirm?
     
  11. Frank_man

    Frank_man Darkwalker

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    lol those tags. "Snakefu". Well written as always and yeah I'm with you on people crying about Andaria's 2-3 BB/hit buff. GET OVER IT SHE ROCKS! I wish I had her and Zedus... oh Zedus... "The Hammer of God" comes to mind in terms of his raw damage. Oh dear lord do I want that nuking power. Double Zedus just sounds like it would be silly fun to wtfstomp the world with.
     
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2015
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  12. Summoner_Scott

    Summoner_Scott Heavenly Judge

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    The review we've all been waiting for! As always, a great and informative read. Thanks for giving Andaria the love she deserves, I'm glad to have her!
     
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  13. Martin541

    Martin541 Nomos

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    I wished I had a Zedus. I cracked and blew all my gems, no Zedus. So mad. During the anniversary free unit event if they do it, I'm definitely gonna ask for a B Zedus.
     
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  14. Frank_man

    Frank_man Darkwalker

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    Now that is a pretty solid idea...
     
  15. Eleiryn

    Eleiryn QUACK QUACK BOOM Administrator

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    Are you TRYING to break the universe?!
     
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  16. RainyRai

    RainyRai Demeter

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    I have a breaker zedus.

    balmedia only had his guts melted a lot.
     
  17. Martin541

    Martin541 Nomos

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    Yes I am. I can just taste the amount of damage dual B max imped Zedus leads+my B maxed imped Hadaron would do against a light type enemy. And for quick easy raids. Zedus is the hero we deserve AND need. I envy all you guys with a Zedus. Cherish him.
     
  18. RainyRai

    RainyRai Demeter

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    ZEDUS CHRIST.
    HE DIED FOR OUR SINS.
    HE SACRIFICED HIMSELF TO CREATE MUTLITUDES OF DICK EATING TIGER LIGHTNING BOLTS
    TO SAVE ATHENSPHERE FROM THE SECOND INVASION
    AND SO AS TRIDON PARTS THE SEA
    AND AS ULTOR DEFEATS THE CYCLAW
    ALL SHALL REMEMBER THE DAY THAT VIRGIN ANDARIA GAVE BIRTH
    TO OUR LORD AND SAVIOR ZEDUS CHRIST.
     
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  19. BF Augzy

    BF Augzy Bestest Friend

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    5073041234
    Leader:
    Weiss
    Level:
    Infinity
    Hunter Rank:
    41
    Raid Class:
    RC 6
    Messages:
    196
    Hey mama Ele, you do something special for this community that no one else is willing or can do. Just want to let you know how much I personally appreciate it and I think I can speak for most when I say we wait for these posts every time a new unit or 7* comes into town. Very humorous and intelligently delivered. 10/10 for you girl!
     
  20. Frank_man

    Frank_man Darkwalker

    Server:
    Global
    Friend ID:
    7914871799
    Leader:
    Ensa-Taya, Nyami
    Level:
    335
    Hunter Rank:
    45
    Raid Class:
    RC 6
    Messages:
    5,501
    I'm sure everybody took this as you trying to be nice, and I'm sure Ele took it as such. I read this and laughed and thought, "Well damn, way to throw Rainrai under the bus for their reviews" lol
     
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2015

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